Mede8er Forum
Mede8er Products => MED600X3D / MED1000X3D / MED800X3D => Technical Issues => Topic started by: Mede8er1 on October 29, 2012, 11:39:52 AM
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We will have a raw test release ready this week that addresses the 23.976 issue in both 2D and 3D. This will not have Mede8er code on it and will be used to specifically check this functionality. This release is internal only but we will offer it to a few users via PM as we would like them to assist in confirming that it resolves the issue on their systems. Once this is all confirmed then we will merge the Mede8er code and aim for a release within November (after the next X2 update is released) based on the above.
Mede8er1
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please send me
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Will this fix also be implemented in the 1185 code?
Regards..Dick
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We will have a raw test release ready this week that addresses the 23.976 issue in both 2D and 3D. This will not have Mede8er code on it and will be used to specifically check this functionality. This release is internal only but we will offer it to a few users via PM as we would like them to assist in confirming that it resolves the issue on their systems. Once this is all confirmed then we will merge the Mede8er code and aim for a release within November (after the next X2 update is released) based on the above.
Mede8er1
I recently bought the Med1000X3D but unfortunately I also see the 40sec frame skip using the 24Hz option in the menu. Although I think that the 100X3D is a very good player I must say that at the moment I can´t use it all neither in 2D or 3D because of the 23,976Hz bug. It´s very annoying especially during smooth camera pans. Right now I´m using the latest beta Firmware from Nov.19th. As far as I understand you are working on a new firmware which will solve the frame skip problem. Do you think a solution to this problem is still to be expected in 2012 ???????????
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Mod - sent a pm regarding testing the firmware - I use a lumagen processor which accurately reports frame rate.
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We will have a raw test release ready this week that addresses the 23.976 issue in both 2D and 3D. This will not have Mede8er code on it and will be used to specifically check this functionality. This release is internal only but we will offer it to a few users via PM as we would like them to assist in confirming that it resolves the issue on their systems. Once this is all confirmed then we will merge the Mede8er code and aim for a release within November (after the next X2 update is released) based on the above.
Mede8er1
Is there any update on testing feedback for the fix (good, bad or otherwise) - I'm looking to purchase MED1000X3D - but this issue is a deal breaker for me
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The test program went well. That had no sanji code..just a basic realtek SDK with clock fixes. We are waiting on some remaining issues to be fixed in that SDK and then work will start on adding the Sanj features currently found in 1.0.3. It isn't bolted on to 1.0.3. We expect that work to start soon.
Please do not confuse 24 hz pan jerk with the 23.976 clock issue. The industry is solving the former by fitting ever more powerful interpolaters to displays..it has nothing to do with poor clocks in sources.
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So then has this issue been fixed in 3D mode and 2D? I'm new here and coming from the Micca EP950 which also suffers from the same issue (playing 23.976 files @ 24.000). The Micca fixed it in 2D mode but in 3D mode it still stutters evey 42 seconds due it playing the file at 24.000 instead of 23.976. The main reason I'm looking at this player is to fix this issue in 3D mode, and the off-center issue the Micca suffers from. I understand the difference between film judder and the clock issue. I'm of course referring to the clock issue.
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i had a micca ep950 before, and i compare plenty of stuff between them, you wont regret buying one of mede8ers players
with the new sdk being test , it display the correct framerate of 23,97.
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i had a micca ep950 before, and i compare plenty of stuff between them, you wont regret buying one of mede8ers players
with the new sdk being test , it display the correct framerate of 23,97.
I assume you´re one of the test users who were provided with the new firmware which fixes the 23,976Hz bug ?!?
If you are, can you make a guess when the new FW will be released ???? ;D
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It was not a complete firmware with added clock fix. It was simple code using a new SDK which had a clock fix. The process of turning it into something as complex as 1.0.3 will start soon.
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i had a micca ep950 before, and i compare plenty of stuff between them, you wont regret buying one of mede8ers players
with the new sdk being test , it display the correct framerate of 23,97.
Glad to hear. So this has been fixed in both 2D and 3D mode too then? If so then I'm very happy to hear that.
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Hey!
Looking forward to a MED600 and the deal breake for me is the frame skipping every 40sec. I heard that you guys fixed it but i heard that you dont, if you could tell me it would be great. If you tell me that the med600 doesnt have the 23,976 upconverting to 24 and it doesnt flicers every 40 sec i will buy it! Thanks for the reply
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It is fixed..but not yet in code released to the public becuase it lacks any features such as Jukebox. We hope to have that ready in the first few weeks of next year. Couto is one of those testing hence you should take note of his positive comments as an independent tester.
I would point out that is not a universal problem. We don't have hundreds of posts saying they can't live with an X3D as it stands. If you currently do have the problem with you current realtek player and your display device, then you will probably have it again with an X3d until the firmware is released.
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Hey!
Looking forward to a MED600 and the deal breake for me is the frame skipping every 40sec. I heard that you guys fixed it but i heard that you dont, if you could tell me it would be great. If you tell me that the med600 doesnt have the 23,976 upconverting to 24 and it doesnt flicers every 40 sec i will buy it! Thanks for the reply
buy it, its fixed
even with 23,99 its very smooth unless your tv make a lousy job, but its rare to see issues.
i had a apple tv2 and now apple tv 3 and the framerate was/ is 23,99, and they are apple.
whats your tv model by the way ? ntsc or pal ?
regards
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Thanks for the reply guys!
So if it's not already fixed, then itt will be? Hmm that's cool i will order mine tomorrow :) Btw i'm from Hungary, Europe so i have PAL
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We prefer saying it's fixed..but yet to be released. That's different from saying we are working on a fix..but have no idea what it is. The likes of Couto can confirm they don't have the issue with their test firmware.
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Nice, thanks. Defeneatly ordering one :)
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Hello
For your information, I have also this bug, my med600x3d is connected via my amplifier onkyo nr616 to my sony TV 65hx920.
The picture jumps every 40 seconds
cordially,
Doryphore
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Hello
For your information, I have also this bug, my med600x3d is connected via my amplifier onkyo nr616 to my sony TV 65hx920.
The picture jumps every 40 seconds
cordially,
Doryphore
Connect to hdmi for 1080p/24
Put autoframe rate on in x3
On your sony tv try to turn off/on the Motion Enhancer---Motionflow XR 800
Try to shutdown panoramic mode that is in auto mode.
Its a 65" tv with 200hz refresh rate, its not the best of specs for a good frame deinterlation, look at review of 84 inch lg 4k tv in whathifi, its a flagship model 22.000£ but still cant handle with motion very well.
http://www.whathifi.com/review/84lm960v?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=WHIF%20ENews%20Bulletin%20(12.12.2012)&utm_content=article20_headerline
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Im not sayinng its your tv fault , but doesnt help either
The bad: The extremely expensive XBR-HX929 shows some blooming artifacts, and its picture deteriorates more noticeably than usual when seen from off-angle. Its menu and Internet service design is lackluster, and Sony does not include 3D glasses. When displaying 3D, the image flickers when dejudder is turned off, and it deteriorates rapidly when you tilt your head.
The available adjustments themselves are somewhat sparse by today's standards. The company didn't add the option to adjust dejudder processing beyond the four presets, and unlike some competitors it doesn't offer a 10-point white-balance control or color management system. A pair of wacky processing extras differentiates the XBR-HX929's settings from lower-end Sonys.
Whats is this wacky processing they are talking about?
Video processing: With Motion Flow set to the Off position, the HX929 correctly handled 1080p/24 film cadence. All of the other settings introduced some degree of smoothing (dejudder), although Clear 1 came closest to Off, preserving a good deal of judder and keeping smoothness to a relatively low, albeit still easily discernable, level. As usual we wished for a Custom implementation similar to what Samsung provides, as opposed to having to select from presets.
Two of those presets, Clear and Clear Plus, use backlight scanning for maximum motion resolution. The other two, Standard and Smooth, do not, and come in at around 900 lines. As usual we couldn't tell the difference in normal program material between any of these settings, including Off.
We also checked out Sony's Reality Creation system and preferred to leave it set to Off for high-quality sources. The Resolution portion seemed to act a lot like a sharpness control, adding edge enhancement at high levels and softening the image when we turned it down. The Noise Reduction section might be useful (along with the three other NR settings) for some lower-quality material, but had no impact we could discern on high-quality sources.
We chose to turn on the Smooth Gradation control, however, choosing Low, because the default Off position left small artifacts around the diagonal lines on our Sharpness test pattern. We noticed no ill effects in Low, and no difference in false contouring regardless of which setting we used.
Unlike the 909 and most other TVs we've tested, the 929 failed our 1080i de-interlacing test, so you may see some minor artifacts in 1080i film-based material.
Do you have a Apple tv to test on?
Advice play with your tv settings see whats The best, pick one movie only where The 40s is seen, And adjust , it require time And patiente, until The new sdk arrives.
Ps: 920 is european model, 929 is us model, but are The same full local dimming And nice black levels.
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buy it, its fixed
even with 23,99 its very smooth unless your tv make a lousy job, but its rare to see issues.
i had a apple tv2 and now apple tv 3 and the framerate was/ is 23,99, and they are apple.
whats your tv model by the way ? ntsc or pal ?
regards
Already being an owner of the MED1000X3D I would like to know whether the clock fix will ensure that the MED1000X3D outputs an exact frame rate of 23,976Hz. I´m getting more and more confused now that you are mentioning a frequency of 29,99Hz which should be “smooth enough” unless your display device is making a “lousy job”.
Are you saying that the display device is responsible for displaying the “right” frame rate.
My understanding always was that the playback device should be responsible for the correct frame rate.
I hooked up my MED1000X3D to the brandnew Sony Projector VPL-HW50.
In addition to the recently bought MED1000X3D I got a Popcornhour C-200 and a Dune Smart H1 which both never gave me any problems regarding a frame rate of 23,976Hz even with my old Sony projector VPL-HW10.
I also checked the MED1000X3D with a Sony TV KDL-52Z4500 but you can still see the “hiccup” even with Motionflow turned off (on the HW50 and my TV).
I hope you are right that the clock fix will get rid of this problem because apart from the frame rate issue I´m very pleased with the MED1000X3D . So I guess I have to wait until January to see for myself whether this matter is solved.
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@besson
i can guarantee it is fixed, i test with my projector espon TW600 and shows 23,97 other with projectors also had the same result, and my pj doesnt have any kind of frame interpolation.
regarding my words tv makes lousy job dont interprete me wrong, you are right saying that the media player should output the correct frame 23,97.
Some tvs can hide or mask the 23,99 error other tv dont do it so well....
i dont have issues with 23,99, because my TV ue40d6530 (400hz ) masks the error, and the projector 480hz also hide the error at 23,99hz.
im not a unique case, theres more reports around the web with similar experience.
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ITS NOT JUST THE TV THAT HELPS THERES OTHER FACTORS TO CONTRIBUTE.....BY COUTO
But let me share my experience i had a few days ago
i buy all my BD movies and rip it , and i dont have any issues every 40 seconds
my friend use the downloads metod to get is movies, i was showing him the med600x3d, trying my ORIGINAL movies and stuff , he like so much that he bring is hard drive with is downloaded movies.
FIRST TEST FROM MY FRIENDS HARD DRIVE
avatar 3D.sbs.mkv --- 19GB encoded subtitles side by side, format mpeg4, dolby digital, etc i think he use mkvmerge at least was what mediainfo reports
first 10 seconds of the download avatar 3D , i see a issue like the one you see every 40 seconds, another 40 seconds and again and again.
put my ripped avatar 3D from original and is fine, fine , fine NO ISSUES.
hard drive > usb > med600x3d >hdmi 1.4 > LG 3D TV
to make sure was not hard drive, we copy is avatar 3D to my hard drive and the issues was still there.
that leads to conclude, is avatar 3D movie has problems, and that a crappy download from the internet can ruin anybody's viewing experience, and its easy to blame a product that performs well.
thats why i mention in my previous post apple tv3 with 23,99 and i dont see 40 second issues.
my advice to anyone : if you reporting a 23,976 issue make sure your movie doesnt come from the internet.
FINAL TEST MY FRIENDS AVATAR 3D, WITH RAW BETA 23,97
ill tell you tomorrow :)
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I too can confirm that the new SDK has fixed my problems with the 24p stutter too. And there a lot of people in the beta testing forums who can vouch for the same.
The stutter has been solved and on my Panasonic AE8000 projector now plays files without a bit of stutter.
I am thrilled with the new sdk and am on route to buy another med x3d to replace my older sigma player which now is useless after this sdk fix.
So guys you can buy the new X3D's with confidence as said by Couto.
Cheers.
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@ couto and @ vikc
That´s good to know and thanks for clarifying this matter.
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I too can confirm that the new SDK has fixed my problems with the 24p stutter too. And there a lot of people in the beta testing forums who can vouch for the same.
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I am very much interested in this fix. How can one get it? How can one become a beta tester?
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"...
my advice to anyone : if you reporting a 23,976 issue make sure your movie doesnt come from the internet...."
All my MKV and MKV3d are made from originals Bluray
Where i live in france, it's impossible to download a movie ;D ;D
Doryphore
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FW 1.0.5 final is out, but 23,976 issue still exists. When will this be fixed?
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rafp74
V2 firmware that we working on.
Mede8er1
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V2 with the clock fix has now reached the beta stage. This dosn't mean everything is in it, including unwanted bugs. We are adding features to the bare bone code that the clock testers had and testing as we go along.
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Hi,
I'm very interested in purchasing this 1000X3D device, just waiting that the 23.976 bug is solved in the next firmware hopefully.
Any forecast regarding a release in the next few days/weeks ?
Many thanks.
V.
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vale69
V2 is in the Beta Group right now and we have collected a lot of data and feedback and we are now working on the code.
How long will it take - hard to say as the next release will go back to the Beta Group and this cycle will be repeated until V2 is stable for public release. I would say min 3 weeks and no max as it has to be done correctly.
Mede8er1
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@vale69
i confirmed and plenty of others users can confirm it..its fixed.
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I have the 600X3D, and all the files I saw and tested on it are from internet ;D, but I never noticed the 23,976 fps bug. Should I see it or not? What I don't understand is if this bug is always present or not!
The only bug I have is with a mkv file of The Bourne Legacy (video untouched) at 25 fps. The movie starts with the bug every 2 sec. and not just every 40 sec. and it's really bad to see. But after 2 - 3 minutes of watching the bug disappears and the movie becomes normal. If I press stop and restart the movie the problem is still there, but if I press the backward button until the beginning when I switch to the play mode the movie have no bugs. What could be the problem? Has it a link with the 23,976 bug?
My tv is a sony 55hx855 connected to the 600X3D with the mede8er hdmi cable and the file is on a external verbatim 3.0 usb hdd drive (2,5") formatted in ntfs!
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I have the 600X3D, and all the file I saw and tested on it are from internet ;D, but I never noticed the 23,976 fps bug. Should I see it or not? What I don't understand is if this bug is always present or not!
HDMI has to negotiate between each end as to what clock to run. Most TV's won't run what they are told is 23.976 media using the supplied 24hz clock. They force the source to run properly. It tends to be projectors capable of working at almost any rate which will lock to the clock coming from the source, right or wrong.
This is why this issue is so problematic. If those testing don't have an issue reported as a problem it's difficult for them to confirm if it exists or not.
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HDMI has to negotiate between each end as to what clock to run. Most TV's won't run what they are told is 23.976 media using the supplied 24hz clock. They force the source to run properly. It tends to be projectors capable of working at almost any rate which will lock to the clock coming from the source, right or wrong.
This is why this issue is so problematic. If those testing don't have an issue reported as a problem it's difficult for them to confirm if it exists or not.
Sorry, but I don't understand properly (cause of my english). You're saying that I'm not able to see the bug or that my TV is forcing the source to run properly so that the bug is not displayed?
P.s. I think the new firmware should be tested only by those who have/can see the bug. For example it's completely unuseful to insert one like me in test group, because I have not the bug...or unless I can't see it!
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Sorry, but I don't understand properly (cause of my english). You're saying that I'm not able to see the bug or that my TV is forcing the source to run properly so that the bug is not displayed?
P.s. I think the new firmware should be tested only by those who have/can see the bug. For example it's completely unuseful to insert one like me in test group, because I have not the bug...or unless I can't see it!
Some would argue "not seeing" is the issue. Those of us who normally test have looked and stared..and can't see anything, believe HDMI is correcting itself if the display won't lock to 24hz. So the problem is there for everyone, but most are lucky enough to have a display that helps to correct it.
We've already had a primary test group using projectors foucussing on the clock issue. That basic code , called RAW, is now being developed into V2 and tested by the main x3d beta group "for general bugs". Some of those comment on the fact they never saw anything before..and it's the same with V2. Others see a huge improvement because they did have the problem.
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hello i'm new on this forum.I receive my 600x3d today and i have the bug with 23,976.I have an optoma hd33 an i pass the hdmi with an ampli denon 1912.Can i test the v2 firmware beta?
Thank's
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Sorry for creating a seperate thread.
I receive my 1000x3d tomorrow and would like to test the firmware (would like it for my omcoming mvoie night this weekend)
Thanks
Kasper Hansen
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dont no if they are accepting more users but send pm to mede8er1
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dont no if they are accepting more users but send pm to mede8er1
Okay. Will try. Thx
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The purpose of the beta group is to generate a manageable number of bug reports. Too many can actually slow things down . If the group is too large people start to think everyone else will report, and they can just enjoy the fixes. Beta testing is not a pre-release scheme for the firmware.
So for the time being we have enough.
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Alright. Looking forward to the firmware :)
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Before i ask the question, i would like to state this.... I had an Extremer Pro mediaplayer before and support was ****. A forum with (Negative) comments repeatedly being deleted. If a new model is out forget the support and promises for your old player. :(
Mede8er support is really super, with forum support and with many updates and bugfixes.
Just a thought.... I believe the 23,976 fps bug can be a major bug with playing some (mainly older?) movies for a new mediaplayer.
I've read several times that the bug is fixed in version 2, so why not a (quick) update with only the 23,976 bugfix?
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Before i ask the question, i would like to state this.... I had an Extremer Pro mediaplayer before and support was ****. A forum with (Negative) comments repeatedly being deleted. If a new model is out forget the support and promises for your old player. :(
Mede8er support is really super, with forum support and with many updates and bugfixes.
Just a thought.... I believe the 23,976 fps bug can be a major bug with playing some (mainly older?) movies for a new mediaplayer.
I've read several times that the bug is fixed in version 2, so why not a (quick) update with only the 23,976 bugfix?
I can only guess, but i think if they could and it was easy they would do it. :)
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Before i ask the question, i would like to state this.... I had an Extremer Pro mediaplayer before and support was ****. A forum with (Negative) comments repeatedly being deleted. If a new model is out forget the support and promises for your old player. :(
Mede8er support is really super, with forum support and with many updates and bugfixes.
Just a thought.... I believe the 23,976 fps bug can be a major bug with playing some (mainly older?) movies for a new mediaplayer.
I've read several times that the bug is fixed in version 2, so why not a (quick) update with only the 23,976 bugfix?
because they are using a totlally new sdk and they need to port and re-write some of the code to this new sdk.
the sdk 10.5 plays at 23,99
the new sdk 2.0 plays at 23,976
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Ok, very clear....Thanks!
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ok me too i wait with a very big impatience!! ;)
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I've read several times that the bug is fixed in version 2, so why not a (quick) update with only the 23,976 bugfix?
This is not a bolt on. It's a complete rebuild, starting first with Realtek producing a new SDK. That was tested by by the so called RAW group with the standard realtek GUI. We now have to port 1.0.5 code over to that SDK, testing as we go that the clock doesn't vanish. We also want to add some new features. I would hope we would offer a public beta as early as we can..so that the use of clock fix is not held up by waiting for other features. That isn't my decision to make. ;)
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As long as we know it will be fixed i can wait. I had a WD Live gen 3 with the same problem, and there wasnt much support by the developers so its good to see great support on this forum.
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Well another week has passed. Do you have any better idea on when the new FW will be released?
If it hadn't been discussed to such an extent on here already I would have returned my 600 by now as this is a huge annoyance when watching about 50% of my movies.
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Did you read my last post? You make is sound like all that should be done in a week. :-\
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Hahaha. If only.
Appreciate that it's not an easy fix but they've been working on it since November haven't they?
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Hahaha. If only.
Appreciate that it's not an easy fix but they've been working on it since November haven't they?
why rushing because of some impatiente users, i rather wait a couple more when is complelty finished..
im sure everyone is aware of quick not ready release of a400 3 months has passed and they havent fix the true hd audio or iso streaming...long with other long list of bugs.
the mede8er player are perfectly playable with 10.5 firmware, and is a much better player than all competitors.
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why rushing because of some impatiente users, i rather wait a couple more when is complelty finished..
im sure everyone is aware of quick not ready release of a400 3 months has passed and they havent fix the true hd audio or iso streaming...long with other long list of bugs.
the mede8er player are perfectly playable with 10.5 firmware, and is a much better player than all competitors.
Or remember the Boxee box HD AUDIO bug they said they would fix to this day it isnt fixed you can see why members would want to know whats going on
the boxee issue was first reported 13/Jan/11 so thats 2 years now without a fix
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Did they ever have forum members working as beta testers using beta code with the fix? That's the difference. Why say you are not being informed 4 or 5 posts after my last post? There is no point, like some other makers who are no longer around (Tvix, Ryan) , in giving some roadmap which can't possibly be achievable as there are far too many unknowns in it. That is just a ploy to stop people asking "are we there yet?".
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Did they ever have forum members working as beta testers using beta code with the fix? That's the difference. Why say you are not being informed 4 or 5 posts after my last post? There is no point, like some other makers who are no longer around (Tvix, Ryan) , in giving some roadmap which can't possibly be achievable as there are far too many unknowns in it?
regarding the Boxee yes according to there forums at various points they did say they did has certain members with a so called new SDK which never arrived
i never said no one was being informed ive seen the post and a looking forward to the Fw wish i had of been a forum member ages ago might of been able of been a beta tester
as soon as the fix is released the good Player will be a fantastic player
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regarding the Boxee yes according to there forums at various points they did say they did has certain members with a so called new SDK which never arrived
It our case this isn't a "ploy". We gave permission for those involved in the clock test (not beta testing) to answer queries like yours so it wasn't just mods saying "it's fixed..and coming soon".
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It our case this isn't a "ploy". We gave permission for those involved in the clock test (not beta testing) to answer queries like yours so it wasn't just mods saying "it's fixed..and coming soon".
ok thats fair enough but you can see why some users are wary about it
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why rushing because of some impatiente users, i rather wait a couple more when is complelty finished..
im sure everyone is aware of quick not ready release of a400 3 months has passed and they havent fix the true hd audio or iso streaming...long with other long list of bugs.
the mede8er player are perfectly playable with 10.5 firmware, and is a much better player than all competitors.
Oh yeas you are right. I also have an A400. I'ts sofware is a shame.
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Please send me the Beta 2.0. With 1.0.5 don`t work correctly. Has a problem with 23,976 fps. Sorry my english.
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Please send me the Beta 2.0. With 1.0.5 don`t work correctly. Has a problem with 23,976 fps. Sorry my english.
Check this:
http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,10141.0.html
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i know this topic is over a year old...still it is the place to ask this as my question/experience could benefit MANY people ;D
This subject has been debated many times on other forums but i don't recall it here. so that people can discuss and learn about this issue as many seem to be ignorant :o
My med600 is coming in a week :) but LIKE millions of people i have been using for the last 5 years PS3+UMS (via DLNA) and i am hugely satisfied...as it PLAYS everything by transcode...yes. EVEN many HEVC files transcode on the fly flawlessly! (something not possible on the MED from what i read coz of the weak realtek 1186)
anyway... :P
PS3, coz of sony restrictions, cannot play content @24p (hz) via streaming. So stop asking why ps3 shows 50hz or 60hz :mrgreen:
Fine so what i would like to know from senior members here and that would benefit all of us - is the difference between playing the content @60hz vs @24hz !
The PS3 performs what is called 3:2 pulldown in order to convert 24hz to 60hz. But is there any real difference that can be noticed ? anyone ?
in theory there should be judder on a 50hz TV anyway...but most of US have a 100hz/200hz native TV. That has been my case since 2008 :mrgreen:
People say playing 24p @60hz via UMS introduces a lot of judder....PROBLEM is i have NEVER seen ANY judder with UMS
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Most US users are used to 24 to 30 conversion when films are broadcast on TV. They are more tolerant of the repeated frames than PAL region users. They are used to having films played faster at 25hz, with no repeated frames. They are more likely to notice when native 24 hz is not used and 30 is instead with repeated frames.
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And while displays here in the US will take 23.97 FPS/24FPS and display the same when checking Info for those displays, most do not actually do 24fps. The displays are converting to 60fps anyway.
This was a big deal when HD Video technology hit the market and we had the option to choose 24fps. Created some heated debate too.
Someone took the time to test displays and the result was very insightful as demonstrating how many displays do not convert was very limited. Projection TV's a bit of a different matter but for regular TV many do not even do true 23.97 or 24 FPS despite the display showing the info as if they are.
We go through a lot to make sure our video sources provide the right FPS and then many displays take the signal back to 60FPS anyway.
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The issue of the clock was different from adding frames. Some users noticed when the video paused to resync video and audio due to the use of the wrong clock, 24 instead of 23.976. This happened every 42 seconds. There is a difference between noticing it and being irrigated by it. So all such debates about clock resync pauses and repeat frame smearing are very personal.
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"....are very personal."
No doubt.
Its just that for all practical purposes if my display ends up actually not using the 23.97 or 24 frame rate than I might as well just leave the media player source at 60 and not mess with 23.97 anyway.
The list of displays that show 24, or 23.97, when hitting the Info button as IF they were actually doing 24 but were not really doing so was surprising.
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@js :
wait a second....many many very high end review sites....do DEEP tests to determine if a TV does nor NOT TRUE 24p!
hdtvtest/hdfever is probably the most technical sites in the world...there is also cnet that gives much importance to 24p
so when they PROVE that a TV does TRUE 24p....then it is NOT true ???!
Hell i am inclined to believe those sites as they have gear to measure frames etc...
In 2008-2011 many TV's could not do perfect 24p even high end ones...yes i agree...BUT Tv's in 2012-2014....well most of them can handle that just fine mainly mid & high end models
The Mede8er reviews did also demonstrate that it can really output @24p
As far as i am concerned, if the MED does it perfectly and my Panasonic ET60 from reviews says it handles 24p very well...it means that i will get indeed 24p on bluray rips ;D
this is the first time i have heard that TVs display 24p and do in fact 60hz :o
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There was quite a lengthy thread on AVS Forum that detailed the results of testing for true 24fps. It was the folks doing that testing that demonstrated just how many displays said they handled 24fps but were in fact converting it to 60fps. So seeing 24fps in the info field for the display meant the display could handle the 24fps input but it did not mean the display was actually doing true 24fps playback.
Those tests showed there is a difference between a display accepting 23.97 or 24fps AND the display leaving the 24fps intact and displaying true 24 FPS.
In other words just because you see 24fps or 23.97 show on your display when you hit Info, that is not a guarantee your display is actually displaying 24 fps.
If a person has one of those displays, as I do, setting and messing with a video source at 23.97 is pointless. The frustration with getting the video source to display 23.97 accurately, which should be happening of course, is not worth the trouble.
If a person has a display that keeps 23.97, 24fps, intact and uses true 24fps, that is different of course. Me I keep 24fps turned off on my video sources because it is irrelevant for my display because my display won't use it anyway.
People need to check their displays and see if they are really doing true 23.97 or if the display is messing with it and despite the input being 23.97 the display is not utilizing it. If they have one of those displays that is converting the input signal, they are creating a potential problem that does not need to exist by setting their video sources to 23.97 or 24 fps.
It is also one of those things to check when purchasing a new display.
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AVS tends to be a US user site. Most of our clock tests where done by Europeans with projectors , who had complained about the 42 second clock resync. So whether its of use to you or not, we do know the X3D supports both 24 and 23,976 for those whose displays work at those rates.
The chip always had 60 and 59.xxxx. So pull up from both 24 and 23,976 got the correct rate needed. Then you get the repeat frame smearing that most pal region users hate. When that is absent some US users call it the soap opera effect. Its as if they are so used to repeat frame smearing with movies that they miss it, even though its actually an aberration.
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Projectors different thing than flat panel displays.
If the unit (the Mede8er) is supposed to do 23.97 it of course should do so.
Displays can say one thing when hitting Info but are actually doing something quite different.
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My set resynks to 24 and says so...
There is a diifernce between having support for 23,976/24 in the edid, and Motion Flow or whatever the makers calls a panel supporting those rates. My previous 2d TV was an edid only TV. The rates where only for moving video over the HDMI, not for display.
I doubt modern 3d TVs fall into the edid only category. Most cant handle Full HD 3D at 50/60, they have to drop to 720P at those rates. The only way they work in 3D at 1080p is to use 24, 23.976.
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Yep. Still doesn't change my point which is folks need to check and see if their displays really do true 24FPS before messing with 23.97/24 settings on source devices.
Not just display 23.97/24 when hitting Info. Actually do some digging and see if their displays hold to the 23.97 rate or if the display is fooling around and actually displaying at a different rate.
Before getting too annoyed with 23.97 display issues check and see if it is truly relevant for your equipment.
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There was quite a lengthy thread on AVS Forum that detailed the results of testing for true 24fps. It was the folks doing that testing that demonstrated just how many displays said they handled 24fps but were in fact converting it to 60fps. So seeing 24fps in the info field for the display meant the display could handle the 24fps input but it did not mean the display was actually doing true 24fps playback.
Those tests showed there is a difference between a display accepting 23.97 or 24fps AND the display leaving the 24fps intact and displaying true 24 FPS.
In other words just because you see 24fps or 23.97 show on your display when you hit Info, that is not a guarantee your display is actually displaying 24 fps.
If a person has one of those displays, as I do, setting and messing with a video source at 23.97 is pointless. The frustration with getting the video source to display 23.97 accurately, which should be happening of course, is not worth the trouble.
If a person has a display that keeps 23.97, 24fps, intact and uses true 24fps, that is different of course. Me I keep 24fps turned off on my video sources because it is irrelevant for my display because my display won't use it anyway.
People need to check their displays and see if they are really doing true 23.97 or if the display is messing with it and despite the input being 23.97 the display is not utilizing it. If they have one of those displays that is converting the input signal, they are creating a potential problem that does not need to exist by setting their video sources to 23.97 or 24 fps.
It is also one of those things to check when purchasing a new display.
1- very interesting; can you give us the LINK of that discussion ? or maybe a site that displays TV's that DO true 24p and the ones that don't ?
2- How can i find out simply if my TV does display true 24p ???
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My set resynks to 24 and says so...
There is a diifernce between having support for 23,976/24 in the edid, and Motion Flow or whatever the makers calls a panel supporting those rates. My previous 2d TV was an edid only TV. The rates where only for moving video over the HDMI, not for display.
I doubt modern 3d TVs fall into the edid only category. Most cant handle Full HD 3D at 50/60, they have to drop to 720P at those rates. The only way they work in 3D at 1080p is to use 24, 23.976.
jer i have no doubt that the MED does do true 24p....in europe at least :) but it will be pointless if most tv's can't do that framerate well...
i have a 3D 2013 model panasonic TV...and this story drives me nuts...as the main reason i got a MED was to display true 24p (and ditch my beloved ps3 via DNLA that does only 60hz) !!!!!
I am horrified ! how can it be possible that in 2014 and in the 4K TV era....manufacturers STILL can't make a normal true 24p TV ?! THIS is SICK !
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There are several video forums that discuss the issue of true vs. sorta display 23.97/24 issues. As for finding out about your display, ask the company that makes it. The information is available.
I'm not trying to make a thread about display issues. Was simply pointing out that before folks get wrapped up in the 23.97 issue it is worth finding out if your display really uses it.
Again and to be perfectly clear the Mede8er units should work as advertised. Not trying to dismiss the importance of 23.97 display content being done accurately.
It is just the case that if your display isn't really using it then it isn't a variable that is in play for your system anyway......
Glad folks have displays that do use the true display rates. Not everyone does however.
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The chip always had 60 and 59.xxxx. So pull up from both 24 and 23,976 got the correct rate needed. Then you get the repeat frame smearing that most pal region users hate. When that is absent some US users call it the soap opera effect. Its as if they are so used to repeat frame smearing with movies that they miss it, even though its actually an aberration.
The soap opera effect I and so many others hate is caused by frame interpolation - the tv adding extra frames during processing. My Samsung F8000, like most current generation HDTVs, offer their version of "motion smoothing", which adds additional frames to create smoother motion. This results in the dreaded soap opera effect.
For the record, My F8000 does support true 23.976. It doesn't just bump it up to 60, it displays true 23.976.